Interviews

Interviewer:  We asked Jacob Mosler, founder and producer for Film Budget Pro, to let go of his latest budget and visit The Buzz to tell us more about how to attach dollar figures to our production dreams. Everybody needs a great line producer, and with over 300 film budgets and schedules on his resume, we thought Jacob might be able to answer some questions. So, Jacob, thanks for joining us today. 

Jacob (Founder/Producer Film Budget Pro):  Glad to be here. Thank you.

Interviewer:  So, let’s start at the beginning. What does Film Budget Pro do? 

Jacob:  Film Budget Pro is a consulting services company. We specialize in building detailed schedules, detailed budgets, and or budget top sheets. And we also do tax incentive consulting. And from time to time, tutorials on existing budgets and helping people with the software.

Interviewer: So you deal with on a personal basis, why not just have a producer use software? 

Jacob:  Well, you know, the software is really complicated and some people don’t have the time to learn it. And so they come to myself or other line producers or aides to build the schedules or budgets, because it takes a long time to become proficient with the software itself.

Interviewer:  Now you’re using the term line producer and assistant director. What does so what does they have? What do they have to do with budgets? 

Jacob:  Well, the line producer is ultimately in charge and responsible for the budget along with the UPM. Or often they’re the same person. And the reason why call the line producer is because we’re literally responsible for the thousands of line items in the budget.

Interviewer: And what what did they do before software came along? 

Jacob:  I’m sure they were just, using a pencil and eraser and a lot of, ten key and working it out on paper. And, you know, ten, 15 years ago, they didn’t have the software for EP movie magic scheduling, and they did production boards the good old fashioned way. And that’s how I learned when I was in my first film school.

Interviewer:  Which gets me to you’re the founder of of Film Budget Pro. What’s your background? 

Jacob:  My background is in film. I did my undergraduate at University of Washington and worked in the production film industry up in Seattle for about three years before coming to LA, where I attended AFI American Film Institute’s MFA in producing. And from there I went into line producing and became a UPM, and I’ve done 11 features now, independent films mainly, and working also as an ad and sometimes a production post supervisor on films. So I’ve literally had over $25 million crossed my desk and I’m signed off on every penny. So I’ve become very intimate with all of the different line items from development all the way through deliverables.

Interviewer:  And during that year using movie magic scheduling?

Jacob: Absolutely, yeah. Movie magic is the premier software epi or entertainment partner spotted a while ago. So EPI movie magic scheduling is one software and the other is budgeting. And there’s also some other, you know, interesting stuff out there. I like synchronized.com. That’s a good scheduling. Software avid timeline.

Interviewer: So, film budget pro is not software.

Jacob:  No it’s not.

Interviewer: It’s human beings. 

Jacob:  Yes. It’s people like myself and my my team literally taking a script. We’re hired by producers, writers, directors, sometimes production companies to take their script, break it down and return, a detailed schedule and or budget.

Interviewer: Dude, I just how you hire you as my UPM. That’s simple as that. 

Jacob:  And, well, you know, often it does lead into job opportunities. And that’s kind of the silver lining of this business.

Interviewer:  Well, is it required that you be hired as part of the crew, or can you do a budget for somebody and just turn the paperwork back over to them? 

Jacob:  No, it’s definitely not required. You know, often we’re hired on a speculative basis, and often people need these budgets, you know, well in advance of their financing or getting a star attached. And it’s an early, you know, on a speculative basis. They’ve got their script. Next thing they need to know is what it will cost to produce. And so we offer that service.

Interviewer:  Well, what are the services you offer? If I were to say, hire you not to be staff, but just to put the budgets together. What am I getting?

Jacob:  Well, you know, a detailed, budget ends up being 40 to 60 pages. Thousands of line items and everything, from, you know, the cost of the catering to the deliverables and all of the variable costs, which is what you’re paying, cash above scale and all the union fringes for the area of the United States or country that you’re shooting. So it’s a ton of work. And a lot of research goes into every budget, and it ends up being a comprehensive plan, matching the vision. So it’s the money component. And, of course, the schedule is the time component. And those three documents must be equitable, meaning equal the script, budget and schedule. If they’re not, in sync with one another, something’s going to go wrong.

Interviewer: Okay. I’m an indie filmmaker, and I want to come to you, and we have no clue as to how much our script is going to cost. And that’s why we’re coming to you. Can you save us some money? 

Jacob:  Well, I’d like to, you know, it’s all about being efficient. One of the things that we began with is, a questionnaire, and I put it in front of all of our clients, and it’s just a two page questionnaire outlining the critical budget assumptions and schedule assumptions. And it includes things like, what do you want to pay the director, the writer, any and any cast members above scale talk about the union where you’re shooting and we take all this information and build the budget line by line, and it ends up being, you know, the summation total. And that’s really the first pass. And then we can take a creative approach to maybe, finding efficiencies and trying to. But I never advised to cut corners to have wishful thinking because that just gets people into trouble.

Interviewer:  So you don’t tell us to go to Michigan?

Jacob:  I do a lot of budgets for Michigan, Louisiana and New Mexico. And it’s it’s excellent if you if you’re if your picture fits one of the tax incentive states, it’s a good idea to go there. But you also need to be mindful of when you’re going there. How many productions will be there. You don’t want to end up with the, you know, GDF crews that, you know, everybody else is working on, you know, 20 other pictures there. So sometimes it’s better off to go to a region where you’re going to get the first, you know, first class crew.

Interviewer:  How do you deal with issues like, we were just talking in the segment before about the fact that, I actually is on strike against a reality show for better union benefits. The benefit packages keep changing, and sag, and after just got better benefits in the negotiations with the studios. How do you keep track of all that stuff?

Jacob:  Well, you know, I keep track of it, as it comes out and everything gets published by, Entertainment Partners as a paymaster. It’s about a 700-page document that, tracks all of the union. You get the contracts, and I’m always updating them, and they’re changing all the time. And so I keep a close eye on them. And once the contracts set, it’s usually good for three years. And so, you know, you just go with those rates based on the tier of the budget because they all have a low budget agreement. And then the scale agreement. And they’re different for different regions. And the complexities of it are, you know, very, very vast. And so that’s where a lot of the work and homework goes. But once you’ve done the research for a particular region, you know, at least it’s good for three years theoretically.

Interviewer:  Well, Grant, who’s one of our listeners and we have this live chat going. And by the way, if you are listening and you have not yet joined our live chat, do that. It’s a wonderful way to ask questions. During the interview, Grant wants to know whether your budgeting can work in any country he’s based in Australia, and can you do an accurate budget with local laws and union fees and pay rates for a production? Who wants to do New Zealand or Australia? Absolutely. 

Jacob:  I do actually a lot of international, budgets and it’s getting more and more popular. I mean, I’m advertising through Google ads all over the world, and right now I’m doing a budget for France and Israel. I’ve actually produced offshore. And so it just, adds a whole another layer of research, you know, starting with contacting the local film commission and getting in touch with local line producers and checking all of the rates and union laws and country and, you know, government laws. And so it requires an extra step of research. But, you know, it’s all the same nuts and bolts ultimately, when you’re making a film.

Interviewer:  Well, let’s pick Mike’s example of being an independent producer. And I’ve got this great idea, I’ve got this great script. I’ve now put this script very gently with great love on your desk. Walk me through an overview of the budgeting process. How long? What does it take? How much? If I going to be spending? Can it be afforded by people that have relatively small budgets? Just talk me through it. 

Jacob:  Okay, well, we begin with a conversation and I get familiar with the elements of your script without even reading it. I ask you to tell me the basic storyline and the production components. Does it involve a lot of special effects? How many pages is it? Where do you want to shoot and just get an idea of the vision for the filmmaker? And then we, you know, engage in the deal. I’ll give them a price or a bid for the actual work if they want just a budget top sheet, it can be as little as $500. If they want a detailed budget, it’s usually around a thousand and the same for a detailed schedule. So sometimes, you know, we’ll offer a package for a little under $2000. And that’s based on the complexity of the script. And they always are variable rate. Wow. And then we get to work. Like I said, I give them the questionnaire I wrote. I then read the script a few times, do my own internal breakdown, and then we get on the phone schedule about an hour meeting to discuss all of the production critical assumptions. And from there I get to work doing, first. Usually the schedule. If we’re going to do a schedule or, you know, basic pass on all of that, the editors for the critical elements and then build the budget and it takes about 5 to 7 days for each component. So, a schedule and a budget could take, you know, 10 to 14 days.

Interviewer:  Well, what happens if my show isn’t scripted? I’ve got a live event that I’m doing or, a reality show that I’m doing, and there’s no script. How do you do a budget fo them? 

Jacob: Again, you just break down the components. And I do have experience producing live events and, unusual productions. And so you just basically, you know, you’re capturing all of the people, places and things, and you do a rough breakdown. If you don’t have a script, you just break out, you know, the components and talk about when you’re going to need them and for how long, and budget them accordingly.

Interviewer:  Boy, I know you have, you know, 25, 30 years of experience, but there’s got to be things that you miss.

Jacob: Yeah, that’s just a contingency is for (laughs) Yeah, we always want to slap 10% on there and there’s always the unforeseen costs. I mean, I always joke with people that the budget and schedule will be locked in the last day of shooting because they’re moving variables all the time and they’re moving targets, and things are always changing. And there are working document all the way through until you’re done.

Interviewer: Yeah. There’s no such thing as a perfect world. Well, another question is coming in from our live chat is, let’s say that, we’ll pick on Michigan just for the moment, say that we want to do a production in Michigan. Would it make sense to have you be the line producer for that? Or would it be better to have you coordinate with somebody that’s local, that understands all the local setups to do the line production? When you’re working remotely outside the LA area, how do you handle the money? 

Jacob:  Well, a lot of times it is, to the advantage to interface with a local either line producer or unit production manager, or at the very least, a seasoned production coordinator. A lot of times the line producer will come in and represent the film, and they’ll work with local, crew. And so they could team up with their local UPM or production coordinator and go in and, tackle the project.

Interviewer:  Do you happen to know a lot of these people, like in New Mexico and Louisiana and Michigan and all these other tax incentive states?

Jacob:  Sure. Actually, all three of the ones you just mentioned, I have, wonderful colleagues, some of which are mentors of mine that have been, you know, settled out into these regions. And the same with New York and different, Seattle. You know, there’s these different production hubs and certain people just kind of make it their home turf. And so you always want to utilize the best talent you can. When I say talent, I mean the talent in the crew.

Interviewer:  One of the problems, it seems to me, is what happens if a producer says, your numbers are wrong. We can do it for less than that. How do you deal with such cranky clients? 

Jacob:  Well, you know, I never take it personally. I mean, the thing about budget and scheduling, I mean, it’s really kind of black and white. If it’s a union picture, you know the numbers. You know, they’re either right or the wrong, and they can just look them up and verified them. And, you know, at film budget, we take a lot of pride in the er, fastidious, meticulous detail for all the line items and they’re down to the penny. And so there are those are hard costs. And then there’s soft variables where you’re making estimates such as location fees and these things that can be negotiated and equipment. And, you know, just based on my experience for 15 years, I have a really good gauge on what things cost. And, you know, because they’ve crossed my desk and they’re always keeping track of new technologies, whether it’s red or HD deliverables and all of these things that are changing. And then if you don’t know the answer, it’s about doing the research and finding somebody who does.

Interviewer:  Well for the, you know, and that pricing is not expensive. This is yeah, it’s ridiculously cheap. Now, don’t say that because I’m wondering right now. Yeah, definitely double your rates. 

Jacob: Oh, no. Let me caveat to that is that these are the recession prices (laughs)

Interviewer:  Oh, there we go. I like that, and we like to be competitive and stay busy. And it is it. We are in a recession. 

Jacob: And truthfully, 2 or 3 years ago, people in my line of work were charging double these prices.

Interviewer:  Yeah. Well, obviously, you know, but obviously you care about the, the independent filmmaker and you’re making it affordable, and you’re also saving a heck of a lot of money and time and, wow, I’m I’m absolutely blown away. And I’m going to get you a lot of business. 

Jacob:  Well, I appreciate that. And my favorite part of the process is really working with the filmmaker. You get on the phone with them and you’ve read their script, you know their vision, and it’s about helping them visualize, you know, and creating a really solid blueprint, a paradigm for when the rubber meets the road. Now you going go out and spend the money.

Interviewer:  And Jacob, where can people find you? What website do you have? 

Jacob:  It’s FilmBudgetPro.com

Interviewer:  And the founder and producer of film budget Procom is Jacob Mosler. And Jacob, thanks for joining us to. Thanks for what you’re doing. 

Jacob:  My pleasure. Take care.

Interviewer:  Jacob Mosler is an independent producer and budget consultant for film, television, music and multimedia. Mosler has over 17 years in the industry. And what I want to talk with you in a little bit about are these budgets and schedules that you’ve created, using Film Budget Pro. Welcome, Jacob. Thank you so much for joining us. 

Jacob: (Founder/Producer at FilmBudgetPro.com): Glad to be here.

Interviewer: Cool. So first of all, where I want to start is with the first part of that little bio of yours and, and your producer hat. So put your producer hat on and tell me, as an independent producer, what exactly do you do? Because I think that’s something that a lot of people get confused about what a producer does. 

Jacob:  Right. Excellent question. You know, a lot of people have no idea what a producer does. And there’s a lot of different roles and various titles that producers take. But essentially, we are the creative, financial and sort of responsibility managers of any project film, commercial, music video. So, putting together the plan, the team, the financing and then managing it all the way through. And of course, every financial, budgetary decision or schedule decision informs the creative decisions. And we’re all there to make something fantastic, whether it’s a feature film or a short or a documentary. And so having that point of view and wearing the hat of being responsible for beyond what a director’s role is, which is purely creative for the most part, and or a cinematographer which is getting a great image. The Producer is in charge of it all, and ultimately takes the responsibility. We take on the liability. We hire everybody. We manage everybody’s expectations, make sure they’re paid, and ultimately, you know, see the project moves from A to Z.

Interviewer:  Yeah, I the way I like to describe it is, you’re sort of the responsible adult in the room. 

Jacob:  Absolutely.

Interviewer:  You have all these creative people that want to go off and do these creative, fantastic, really interesting things. And then the producers job is to say, okay, we can’t do that. But let’s figure out how we can get close to what you’re looking for. So, how did you get into this role? Did you did you go to school for this, or is it something you just kind of fell into? 

Jacob:  Well, I originally started my background as a musician when I was very young, and I started playing in, a rock band, and I was producing, recordings. And then I produced a large concert, and I had sort of a-ha moment when I realized that I could be just behind the scenes, because the one thing I didn’t want to do at the end of the day was go out on stage. Even though I loved playing and realized I had an affinity and proclivity for putting it all together, and I really enjoyed that part. And then I moved into my final year of High School and I had an honors English class, and a cool teacher who said we could make a movie or write a novel or do some big, for our year-end project. So a buddy and I made a movie in high school, and that was the transition from music into film. I realized that filmmaking combined all these different passions that I have for storytelling, working with people in music, photography, production, just, you know, spinning a lot of plates and bringing something together. So, then I was I was hooked on films. I went to undergrad at University of Washington, got a film degree there before going on to AFI to get my masters.

Interviewer:  Yeah. So, do you think, you took a, I mean, obviously to get you started, kind of a strange route, but then after that you decided to go kind of the, the traditional, education route, get the your undergrad and then and then your, MFA, was that was that the right way to go? And is that how you think is the best role, the best way to get into the producer role? 

Jacob:  Well, I see it as one of Three Roads, and I actually kind of traveled on all three routes. I did my internships, I worked, and, I got the education and I also was hands on filmmaking. I started making short films. I made a little feature on 16 millimeter film for $40,000 before I went AFI. So, I recommend at least one of the three routes either get in and work started as an internship and just learn by doing and getting paid, or just make films finance in some way. And then the third, of course, is just traditional education.

Go to a film school somewhere. I really combined all three, and I think it’s reflected in my resume and my experience.

Interviewer:  Yeah, yeah, I will say that I am I’m a big believer in education because you sort of never know where not only the skills, not only the filmmaking skills that you pick up, but all these other bits and bobs and pieces of knowledge that you learn along the way. You never know when those are going to come in handy. The example I use is that, in college, I, I took a, a Japanese tea, class. And the number of times that I’ve actually used the Japanese tea ceremony in my, career as a filmmaker has been, really surprising, actually. So what were some of the advantages? So getting, going the MFA route? Talk to me a little bit about some of the advantages that having that MFA and going through that process might have given you over just kind of strictly going the work route and make films route. 

Jacob:  Well, American Film Institute is ranked as one of the highest ranked film schools in the world. And I found the experience to be, very enriching. I had a great time. I went when I was 26 to 28 years old. You instantly have 120 friends that are passionate about the same thing, the staff and the instructors and the filmmakers that come in since it’s set in Los Angeles is just, extraordinary. And you actually go in and start making films. And the thing that’s different about AFI’s, it’s a conservatory where everybody comes in declaring their discipline. So unlike NYU or USC, where everybody’s trying to vie for directing or shooting or writing, you come in and you declare your discipline. So you just team up and start making films. I made five short films, we started making music videos on the weekends and in the summer, and then we went in and started making features together. So every job that I’ve had since graduated in 2000, it’s been subsequent and somehow connected to my AFI fellows and you know my fellow comrades there. And you form these relationships. So it’s effectively a very expensive Rolodex that you get when you go to a film school like that. And, you know, having that banner AFI, when you put it on your resumé or you make a phone call when you start out in your career, it carries a little bit of weight, but ultimately it’s the relationships with your classmates.

Interviewer:  And that’s a reoccurring theme that we hear over and over and over again with every interview I’ve done, for this podcast, people talk about it. It is this is a relationship driven business. 

Jacob: Absolutely.

Interviewer:  So, so now you did something interesting, and, and it’s been a few years now, the Film Budget Pro.  Talk to me about that and how that process started. And what is Film Budget Pro?

Jacob:  Well, Film Budget Pro is the company that I started and it’s a consulting service. We don’t have software that we create or sell, we’re using the industry standard, which is called Movie Magic that’s owned by Entertainment Partners. And, I also used Synchronize. It’s a scheduling software, and sometimes I just bust open good old Excel. However, Film Budget Pro is simply a consulting service company, and I started officially in 2008. But in 2004, I got paid to do my first budget. But I’ve been doing budgets for friends since, really grad school. So, for the last 12 years it’s been something that I’ve been doing, and I do them for all my projects and it’s sort of just organically formed into a company where I found it was a niche business where I was doing them for friends, and then I started charging, and then I got really busy from word of mouth. And before the recession, I didn’t even have a website. And then I decided to make it an official company. And the silver lining to Film Budget Pro, is it’s not only a source of revenue in between producing projects, but it connects me with filmmakers, financiers, production companies that need a budget. I serve that need, and then I form relationships, and often I get two phone calls, one is when they need the budget, and the second is when they have their financing and they’re ready to get the production going. And then they’ll often offer me a job producing and whether I’m available or not and want to do it, then we discuss those elements, but it leads to other jobs and reading scripts, meeting of filmmakers and then doing constant research on different technologies approaches. Every budget is usually accompanied by a schedule and it must match the script. Those three documents must be equitable. You know the time, financial and creative blueprints when they are in sync with each other. You have a plan that will hold water when the rubber meets the road and you’ll ideally, you know, have, a successful production and make a good product.

Interviewer:  Yeah. So, so, I will say as, as, as a producer myself, one of the things that I hate doing is I this what you’re describing is one of my least favorite parts of the job. And so why did you think that hey, I this is something I want to, you know, spend my off time doing. 

Jacob:  Well. I like numbers and I like the software, and I like putting together the plan. Sometimes it’s not fun to sit in the chair for 12 hours, but, you know, you take breaks and, you know, you hit your deadlines. And I really enjoy the process of putting together a paradigm, a shooting plan that will match the vision and then the financial components. And so it’s a plan. And, you know, so all filmmaking really is, is planning. And when you’ve done your planning, I mean, I can tell people I use my film degrees in pre-production and, and post and during production I use my psychology degree.

Interviewer: Right. Yeah. 

Jacob:  You’re usually not managing anything more than the people and the expectations, and you’re navigating weather and maybe some technology or problems, but it’s just management. If you’ve done your job, you give everybody their tools to do their to do their thing. And so the planning is critical.

Interviewer:  Yeah. And so what I’m hearing is, is that you had a passion for filmmaking. And there is this one aspect of it that, that you seem to that you seem to enjoy that, that maybe people like me don’t enjoy. And so you’ve taken that and created a, a real kind of secondary career and cottage business out of it. Is that right?

Jacob:  That’s very well described. Yeah. It’s a consulting service. And then the other thing that’s nice is it’s new technology. I mean, I’m just moving documents around usually a PDF. I can do this work from anywhere, whether I’m on location and another film or, traveling. I just need the internet at my phone and my computer and, turn on the old brain and you can work these things out, and I often have six jobs going at any time. And I do enjoy it. It’s a lot of, hard work, and I’m we’re, you know, meticulous with detail here. It’s on budget pro, and it’s always. I take a lot of pride in the documents and so, you know, it’s funny in publishing something every time we’re writing the budget.

Interviewer: Yeah. Very cool. Well, Jacob, we’re going to take a quick break. And when we come back, I want to talk a little bit more about technology, because that is something that our industry is, is really tied to. And, and I want to hear how, how technology has changed the way you work over the last few years. Welcome back to the Groovy Guide to Careers in Filmmaking. This week we are talking with Jacob Mosler, who is an independent producer and, the owner of Film Budget Pro. So, Jacob, one of the things I want to get back to is you started to touch on this a little bit, but, technology, how has technology changed your job? Over the last, you know, kind of 17 years?

Jacob:  Great question. Well, it’s been an exciting 17 years because we’ve really moved from the analog days of filmmaking, which were, you know, we’ve been with for 80 to 90 years to digital. And along with the information, revolution, age, transition in the world, filmmaking has been right at the forefront. So, moving from film and what became video to now HD for purely digital, one thing zero for everything from shooting to editorial and moving documents. I mean, it’s really incredible. Deliverables right now on the latest film that I produced called “Eden” and, we’re, we’re creating a DCP, which is your digital cinema package. Essentially. It’s a hard drive with the movie on it. You crunch the whole thing down to 236 gigs soon will just be, you know, beaming things and streaming everything. It’s already occurring. And so, what it’s done is it’s created efficiencies and it’s just, improve the quality on many levels. And of course, the accessibility to equipment. When I started, it was expensive to get all the cameras and film. And now you can make a feature with your iPhone.

Interviewer: Yeah, absolutely. So how do you how do you manage to stay on top of all of that? Because it’s almost another full-time job just to stay on top of the technology. 

Jacob:  It is whenever I, encounter an element I haven’t dealt with hands on, I just do the research. And so that’s just about reaching out, doing, you know, calling, companies, calling fellow filmmakers colleagues and digging in and finding out about a technology, whether it’s a camera I haven’t worked with or our post-production process, digital intermediate, what have you. And then the other side of it is I’m always producing stuff, whether it’s a short or commercial or feature, and I’m having things cross my desk. I’ve shot on every format, delivered in every format. And, dealing with the new technology right now on my current project. And, you know, you learn the pros and cons ostensibly, by hard knocks and you really you can get a lot of advice from people and you can dig deep, but you really learn when you go hands on and everything crosses your desk and you’re responsible for it. And you see the pros and the cons and RED versus Alexa, and, you know, the different formats of workflow for a Di.

Interviewer:  Yeah. Very cool. And so do you think if someone’s going to get into, the, the industry on the producing side, I mean, it’s I think producing is not normally something that’s thought of as a, as a technical skill. Do you think somebody who wants to become a producer, do they need to have that, that kind of love for technology and a little bit of that geeky side to them?

Jacob: I think it can help. I don’t think that they need to have it. I think that ultimately a good producer is somebody who’s organized, resourceful, has, an affinity for management and leadership. You need to be a task master, efficient. It’s really important to have a business sense. Of course, the creative sensibility and the technical is a nice dovetail to that, or at least understanding the technology enough to know you don’t understand it. And then you hire someone does. And so, then it’s just about a judge. It’s about team building ultimately. And so, you know, having a good, sense of character and what people, when people are telling you the truth or not, and surrounding yourself with experts.

Interviewer:  Yeah, that’s definitely something that I believe very strongly in, is, is finding the right people for the right job. And that can be that can be a real challenge because there are people who, interview really well and then and then don’t necessarily know what they’re doing. And that gets back to what we were saying. If you have those relationships, that makes that part of the job that much easier. 

Jacob: Very well said. You know, I find that one of the, problems is that people rush a lot, and it’s just about getting that box checked and moving on to the next thing I recommend. And I discipline myself even when I already have the answer to, absolutely. Interview for all the key positions, more than, you know, 2 or 3 people, get 3 bids for every major deal from vendors and then compare them. You know, there’s when you rush, you end up spending more time later.

Interviewer:  Absolutely. It’s that curse of  fix it and post and that that happens across the board. If you don’t, if you don’t plan ahead of time, you wind up, you know, if you cut corners at the beginning, you pay for it on the back end. Always, always, always. So great. Well, Jacob, thank you so much for your time. Where can people find out more about you and about your company? 

Jacob: Well, our website is Film Budget Pro.com. We have a page on Facebook. I’m on IMDb. Jacob Mosler. Again, Film Budget Pro.com and all of our contact information is there. We’re happy to consult on any kind of project budget, schedule tax incentive analysis and also consulting on the software and movie magic and the other budgeting software.

Interviewer: Cool. Great. And I’m Brant Altmire, owner and executive producer at groovy. Like a movie. You can find me on Twitter, which is at Groovy Brant. And you can find out more about, the company at groovy like a movie.com or on Groovy Twitter page, which is at think, feel, do. Thank you so much.